Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. TQhung87 BloodR I believe the whole issue of Chaos having "weak" cav is more due to the rambunctious ravaging of Demigryphs than actual stat problems. Regular chaos knights are capable of beating all non monstrous,aka non demi cavalry with the exception of Grail knights. Lance knights will murder everything except Grail knights,it's a clutch fight that can go either way but usually in the Grail favor.
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TQhung87 BloodR I believe the whole issue of Chaos having "weak" cav is more due to the rambunctious ravaging of Demigryphs than actual stat problems. Regular chaos knights are capable of beating all non monstrous,aka non demi cavalry with the exception of Grail knights.
Lance knights will murder everything except Grail knights,it's a clutch fight that can go either way but usually in the Grail favor. I've seen lance knights used to devastating effect,and have used them myself in a few experimental builds. They're completely fine all things accounted for with the exception of the sudden lack of magic attacks on the lance knights - perhaps this would push them over the edge in the right direction.
With the inevitable Demi price pump,price drop on regular cav or whatever CA opts to do,cavalry will see it's spotlight.
Wasn't the Lance specifically designed to fight against guys in Heavy Armor? Meh,it's the situation with a lot of cav units right now - we'll just need to wait and see for concrete changes in the first patch, if AP will be added since I've seen a lot of people ask for AP on shock cav.
I found both knights to be pretty damn legit with those and the tech tree upgrades Discussions Activity Best Of Sign In. Welcome Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. Sign In Register. Categories June edited June in Balancing Discussions.
Greetings,fallacious southerners, it's time for a story. About a worshiper of the ruinous powers who was very lonely. Why was he lonely? Because all of his chaotic brethren were so costly, he was never able to afford bringing them on a world-wide road trip.
So he got fed up and jumped into a volcano, but Tzeentch said jk bro and pulled him out, transforming him into a chaos spawn. The end. For once,the mortal worshipers of Chaos are not overpowered in a Warhammer game in any shape or form, so well done with that one CA the amount of people i know who have PTSD from well played chaos in Dawn of War 2 is astonishing, triple heretic opener pls. However, multiplayer is a different thing. A lot of the units do not perform well at all for their price, or suffer a worse case of price inflation than Zimbabwe's economy.
Chaos shouldn't be about cost efficiency, but there's a difference between having an extremely cost efficient unit and having the majority of your roster so overpriced that you'll have issues forming a competitive read, effective non quick battle list.
When I'm playing against Chaos,I don't think strategically like against other factions. Instead,i laugh. People say Bretonnia is the weakest link? Chaos faces much more issues. Don't get me wrong, winning is possible with Chaos. Against competent players however, it becomes harder due to the predictability and fund draining An example is yesterday's ESL. Have you seen a single player pick Chaos for real besides potential random round 1 games that weren't streamed or something along those lines?
What's the point of this thread? Continuing with ye olde Reptilicus tradition of constructive threads focused on balance. As per usual, I've spoken to a lot of competitive and non-competitive players via Steam for their feedback in regards to the contents of this thread,and have found the needed seals of approval.
One important thing : This thread does not impact singleplayer in the slightest,if a speed buff to 64 on dragon ogres breaks your campaign then there's always the uninstall button.
Got it? Good,let's carry on with the wall of text! Mounts -Manticore receives a slight price drop of 50,poison manticore is added that costs to more; Chaos dragon receives a buff to charge value and health. Breath rework Reasoning : The Chaos dragon is a complete noob trap.
Manticore less so - while they're pretty fine, they tend to be a tiny bit overpriced for what they bring to the table. Poison manticore which exists on the campaign,and as a tabletop upgrade option adds more flexibility due to the actual impact of the poison debuff. When it comes to the dragon, things go a bit iffy. It's utter garbage compared to the manticore from a cost efficiency point of view,and the actual damage potential. For some reason,the armor loss completely ruins it despite scaly skin with it's current HP pool.
The simplest albeit, not the best way of fixing the dragon would be tweaks to the charge value,a noticeable HP increase and a new breath rework Lords and heroes - Sigvald gains regeneration and magic attacks, speed buff to 44; price increase by Reasoning : His flawless skin makes you look like a naked mole rat.
His cheekbones turn your knees into jelly. His pearlescent smile blinds you in a fit of hygienic euphoria. Sigvald doesn't have an effective wave-clear, though he can lay the hurt on some low tier troops even though it isn't the most efficient way to use him. He's good at inappropriately touching individual characters due to his allegiance to Slaanesh, but the problem arises with the fact that he's your army leader. Adding base regeneration to Sigvald in custom,o n top of a general speed increase allows him to perform his role much more effectively.
He can actualy stay backline as a troop supporter and heal up the damage he takes, while his increased movement speed will allow him to dart in and out of combat as deemed appropriate. A potential change in the far future that's too early to talk about with certainty : if hellstriders ever get added to the game i hope they do, for pleasure's sake , allow him to have one as a mount option.
While he can't exactly do it in the 8th ed. Even though he's flexible due to his caster abilities,the lore of fire can be extremely situational albeit extremely lovely in my opinion and in some scenarios,it'll pay off more to have a separate lord and caster or even a sorcerer lord. A simple price drop makes Archaon more attractive, for is he not the everchosen, the bringer of the end times? You have two options : Either reduce Dorghar's price so that he's slightly less expensive with him ,or reduce Archaon's base price so that he costs with Dorghar.
As a whole, Chaos sorcerers are expensive due to their survivability in comparison to other casters which is completely fine. The metal sorcerer does need a lot of love due to the underwhelming effect of most metal spells, but that's a topic for another thread.
Exalted hero is fine, however gimped due to his mount pricing. Infantry - Marauders get a price drop to ; great weapon marauders slight price drop Reasoning : The chaos worshipping equivalents of Conan. You thought you'd get this? Even though some of their statline would suggest they're potent in combat, they tend to drop off quite easily against similarly priced troops.
I remember 7th ed where you could have true hordes of marauders if you wish, that is to tarpit for the big boys, but 8th bumped up their price. Marauders are not meant to be the cost efficient end all-destroy all unit for , but they leave much to be desired. Heck, if I had the option to I'd rather take goblins with Chaos than marauders.
Instead of overtuning them which would warrant a price increase, they can continue being mediocre albeit at a more affordable price - the only reason why you take marauders is to grow your Chaos horde.. Great weapon marauders are in a better situation due to their offensive potential. They've lost the capacity for rational thought at this point either way. I must say, the first time I saw the forsaken stats I was impressed - one of my favorite TT units that was underwhelming to a lot of the playerbase yeah sure,t hey worked in small flanking units but I've seen people get much more cost efficiency with Khorne marked Chaos warriors and double hand weapons for the same role ,even if they'd end up being slower actually ended up being great in the WH game.
Like their mutations suggest, they're pretty insane in combat. So much, that I've seen people bring nothing but a mainline of these bad boys. Killing is their business and business is good, but Chaos shouldn't be about mainline Forsaken spam unless you want a risky approach. While i would like to see the Forsaken receive some of the random mutations as actual attack passives poison etc ,t hat'd warrant a bigger price increase.
Or in the future,separate units that would be appropriately priced. With a small price increase,the cost does add up - especially when you take into account the further changes in this thread. They're supposed to chew troll-flavored bubblegum and kick ass, while always being out of bubblegum.
They shouldn't be tuned in their stats,they're fairly beefy as they are. But due to their price,it's hard to get proper usage out of them against quite a few match-ups. Halberds can be considered flexible to some extent for infantry engagements, but in practice you're always better off using great weapons.
Anti-large shouldn't be such a high priced privelege, considering halberds can end up suffering more than other Chaos warrior units in misplaced infantry engagements obviously not the ideal targets, but you know where I'm going with this. You should alt f4. You should think to yourself " damn,this guy wasted a lot of money for the most expensive infantry in the game, I better find a way to counter it or I'm screwed in the infantry engagement" What ends up happening instead?
Due to their absurdly high price and manpower shortage, chosen get mauled. Their statline is great, it's their manpower for the most part that gimps them. Either increase the manpower to 75 on large aka the standard chaos warrior type with a bit of a price cut, or beef up their base health with a more noticeable price cut,without increasing the unit size. Chosen should NOT form the core of an army aka, spam deluxe.
But in their current state, they certainly need love. Thankfully pullthrough with them has been fixed Rome 2 PTSD , they can't be considered broken in any aspect. If you use chariots correctly,they're capable of amazing performance. Chaos chariots however It's literally always better to pay the extra for the Gorebeast. Remember,chariots are easily countered.
Just a small change. Lance knights are capable of solo-carrying games if used properly.
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